Lake City, Florida USA is the home of a rather unconventional school, New Generation. It is a non-profit, private school for students grade 6th through 12th that are at risk of dropping out of school due to educational difficulties. With a maximum population of 60 students, New Generation has an astounding success rate amongst a category of students that most of society has given up on. However, this is not the only unique property of this school. A visitor would be hard pressed to find a Microsoft operating system in use on campus.
Since I am the geek son of the school’s founder, Paula Gorman, I help out with their technology whenever I am in town. For the first year of it’s existence, New Generation was running Windows XP. Since this resulted in a computer lab that was unusable more often than not, it was an easy sell to convince Mrs. Gorman to switch to Ubuntu Linux.
This morning, the school was having problems with it’s Comcast cable Internet connection, so Mrs. Gorman decided to call Comcast tech support. During the course of the of the phone conversation, the tech support agent requested that Mrs. Gorman click various buttons to try to open up the Windows XP graphical interface for ping, at which point she informed them that she was not running Windows, but Ubuntu. Mrs. Gorman is no geek, but she does know how to use the ping command in the terminal, so she offered to do just that. However, the Comcast tech support agent at that point would not help further, due to his inexperience with Linux.
Mrs. Gorman decided to obtain a case number, so that I could call later on her behalf, to determine the issue. However, the support agent refused to give her the case number, restating the fact that Comcast does not support Linux. He even went as far to say that the company supports Windows, Mac OSX, and even Unix (note that both Linux and OSX are a form of Unix), but not Linux. Needless to say, Mrs. Gorman was not pleased with this response. I would not want to have been the Comcast employee during the resulting conversation. For the next several minutes, she chastised the employee about the evils of discriminating against a customer due to their choice in operating system. Once thoroughly chastised, the employee was more forthcoming with the case number. The funny thing was, the Internet was working again just a few hours later, without me touching any of the networking equipment and without Comcast fixing anything
The teachers at New Generation school have enjoyed using Ubuntu Linux over the past several years, and do not take kindly to being discriminated against by a telecom company. Therefore, they are looking at switching to T1 Internet service via AT&T. Perhaps AT&T will be more friendly to Linux users.
I think it would be rather fun to make the displeasure of Comcast’s Linux customers loudly known. If you would like to spend a few minutes letting Comcast know that is wrong to discriminate against customers due to their choice of operating system, the phone number to the Lake City, Fl. office is (386) 752-6161.
HA HA HA!!! Oh man… Comcast… poor uneducated tech support guys!! HA HA!!!
Unlike your experience, I’ve always had decent support for Linux from my cable service provider, Time Warner’s Road Runner. Although they do not officially support Linux, when I’ve had cable problems they’ve always worked with me towards a solution. Their technicians were always polite and were able to solve any problems I was having and in every case the difficulty ended up being a problem on their end which was also quickly resolved. While they didn’t pretend to know anything about my OS (in most cases, I did have one experience where the tech I ended up was himself a Linux user) they would ask me to check things like ifconfig (well they used the Windows term of ipconfig or something like that, or to ping a site or an IP address, or do something with my browser.
It is too bad that not every ISP is concerned with keeping their customers happy.
On the rare occasions I have had to contact my cable ISP for support, I have told them I was using Linux, but would be able to execute whatever commands they required. I have always found them to be agreeable and helpful.
I do sympathize with the techs when they are forced to deal with totally computer illiterate people regardless of the OS they use. In this case, my guess is that resetting the modem and rebooting the computer, or restarting the network would have solved the problem.
The support folks should have at least been able to manage that.
Sometimes it’s the luck of the draw. The trick is to call back, hopefully getting a competent tech the next time.
@riffraff Perhaps I should just keep calling back, asking the tech support agent if they are familiar with Linux. Even better yet, I could write a Python script to do this, if I was bored enough.
When they give me that line I tend to say “I’m not asking you to support Linux, I’m asking you to support your internet service! I can and do support linux just fine without your help.”
Surprised?
Microsoft owns 7.4% of Comcast stock
http://microsoft.shareholder.com/redesign/EdgarDetail.asp?CIK=1166691&FID=891836-02-574&SID=02-00
@DocHoliday No, that certianly does not suprise me. While on the phone with Comcast, my mom did mention th possibility of Microsoft influencing Comcast’s decision not to support Linux, which the tech support guy did not know what do do with
I’ve made sure to educate her on some of the sneaky back room deals that Microsoft seems to be so fond of.
Not unusual. Most support is precisely like this whether ISP or other.
I have had the same type of support problems from my former ISP and I know others that have. I usually explain to them that I am an EA with over 18 years of experience in IT and that usually turns the table.
In the end, I tell them that I have already run diagnostics including stack traces on the TCP-IP stack and I usually inform them what the problem is. If they are persistent in trying to teach me like an illiterate user, I ask them to give me their email address and I will mail them the stack trace and they can see for themselves. Usually after this, the tech person is dumbfounded. I usually tell them what they should do and normally one of their real system admins will call me back, laugh at my experience, and fix the problem.
Every once in a while I find a tech who actually uses Linux themselves. These conversations turn more into a protracted discussion about the merits of Linux, even though they do not officially support Linux. That is kind of fun!!
Sometimes, these techs are very interested in learning more and ask me what they should do to further their careers. There is laughter when I suggest dumping Windows and moving into the Unix/Linux world as being a good start!
Stories like these are frustrating, but unfortunately, it still happens. Hopefully, one day, Linux will become a recognized market-sharing OS and we won’t have to survive with incompetents like Comcast.
I run linux at home. I have never had a problem with comcast and linux. Even when they came to my house when we moved to setup the new cable modem they had no problems hooking it to my router and testing with my linux workstations. I’m not saying comcast is great, just that they never said anything to me about running linux, even when they were told. I’m assuming thats because it doesnt matter what you run as long as it gets an IP address. ANd this is for Home service. The Business class is even less concerned with the OS. But this is out of comcast country (philadelphia metro area).
If you are actually getting the run around just install XP in a VM on one of the linux boxes and walk through the tech’s questions.
Comcast stinks, I don’t care what OS you run. In my experience, they look for any reason to blame problems on the customer, so it’s not surprising that they use Linux as an excuse.
Linux isn’t a version of Unix, while OSX is. If you are going to rant about a lack of knowledge you should make sure what you write is correct.
As a Linux user myself, I always cringe when I see stuff like this. Let’s say you have a company with 20,000 employees.They are expected to interact with a customer base that is 85% English speaking and 14% Spanish users. Would you lay out the cash to train them in French when the odds are the vast majority are never going to be called on to speak it. Add in all the different X Windows GUI’s, trying to get SUDO or Root terminal sessions with Granny at the keyboard and, well you get the idea.
They aren’t “discriminating” against, or hating Penguinistas. It’s a business decision on laying out training money with a woeful chance of return on investment. How long do you think these people stick around?
Putting the Comcast number for the other members of the he-man Windows haters club to call is a childish move. Thanks for perpetuating the image we are all 30 year olds living in Moms basement with no knowledge of the real world.
@Aquaadverse:
You’re missing the point. Resolving the technical issue at hand did not *require* either Comcast or its tech support representative to “support Linux”.
The end user’s OS of choice made no difference with respect to the issue for which the call was placed.
Refusing to help the end user resolve a connectivity issue merely because she uses Linux would be analogous to calling the state DOT to report a malfunctioning traffic signal, and being told that your issue could not be resolved because you drove a Toyota, and the state only supports Ford and Chevy.
@aquaadverse
“Linux isn’t a version of Unix, while OSX is. If you are going to rant about a lack of knowledge you should make sure what you write is correct.”
UNIX was an operating system written in C at Bell Labs, to replace MULTICS. Bell Labs gave access to the UNIX source code to Berkely, which in turn created BSD (Berkely Software Distribution).
Minix, a _UNIX like_ operating system, was created by prof. Andrew S. Tanenbaum, for instructional purposes. Linus Torvalds, wanting a way to run Unix software on his x86 based home PC, created his own Unix variant based upon Minix, and called it Linux.
So in response to your first comment, what I wrote was indeed correct. When I said that Linux was a form of Unix, I was not implying that Linux is a derivative of the Unix source code, like BSD is. I was simply saying that Linux was inspired by Unix, and very similar to Unix.
As far as your other comments, I think the previous commenter addressed those quite well. I don’t mind others disagreeing with me on my own website, bit I do indeed mind trolls.
I have used Linux nearly exclusively since 1994 (still run Quicken under vmware). I have used Comcast with Linux since ethernet was offered on cable (at least 10 of these years). They never have “supported” linux, so you just have to fake it when you call in a problem. Essentially 99.99% of the time, if the system is down, there is a fault on Comcast end. I can’t remember when my linux system was at fault,but in order to just report a problem, you have to walk through their idiotic steps they want you to go through.
I recently sold my old PC with Ubuntu installed on it to a co-worker. When she had Comcast install her internet service, and they found out that she did not have Windows installed, they told her that she would not be able to access the internet. The reason given was that they had to install Comcast software that is Windows only to get though Comcast’s firewall. When she called me, I asked her to have them set up her cable modem, plug the Ethernet cord into the PC and load a web page with Firefox. She was online in a matter of seconds. Some fancy “firewall” Comcast has in place, don’t you think?
@Jon Packard
Her Lenox box hacked teh firewall? Sounds 1337!
@Jon Packard
I can tell you want *that* was all about… I had a similar experience when I moved from a Brighthouse area to the ComCraptic area I am in now.
When I had the tech c0me out to install my cable service, he noticed the abundance of PCs and said that they only support one PC. No need, I’ll support that one and the rest too. I got a weird look, and he proceeded to make the coax cable for the modem.
When it came time to get online, I grabbed this laptop (Ubuntu 7.10), plugged in the CAT5 and popped to a CLI to grab the IP. This tech’s eyes nearly popped out of his his head and he quickly grabbed his nextel – beeped someone – and handed it to me. The guy on the other end was someone at the office and told me I would need IE6 or higher to use their system. I asked what for and he said it’s to set up the email accounts automatically. I stated that I run Linux, and asked if he could do it verbally. He had no problem setting that up, and in a moment I was up and running.
After the tech left I then hooked up my Linux firewall(IPCop) TB server(Ubuntu) and web server(SME Server).
Only ONE thing better about Comcast IMHO – dl/ul speeds better…
I hate it when people don’t read the article properly. The lady who called comcast was not stupid, she did know how to use her own OS. In the article it does say that she used the ping command via cli since she couldn’t do it via gui in xp since she has no xp. And that comcast would not give her support simply because she ran linux due to ill knowledgeable tech support concerning linux.
In other words this is comcast’s fault for not helping their internet subscriber. Because C0#c@$t $Uck$!!!!!!!111
On a related point, I do not think that it would be too difficult for comcast to support Linux. All those tech support agents do anyways is read from a manual. How difficult would it be to put the Gnome and KDE equivalents into the manual? If they wanted to, they could hire me to write those parts for them! Even if they decided to support Linux via the CLI (which would be desktop neutral), the tech support agents would only need to know how to use ping, ifconfig and dhclient.
You got a great idea there. You write the manual and you could totally help me make a demonstration for comcast techs and devs to show up at for basic gnome and kde use, what apps to expect, and rpm and deb installation how to. It’d had like a projector and stuff and laser pointers for pointing and stuff, along with a direct comparison with xp or vista alongside. It’d be very powerful, people would learn so much, that’s really all it’d take to make comcast less suck.
I’m a plumber by trade. I was at a customers house one day and the older lady whom I was working for was upset. I asked her what was wrong and she said the computer her kids gave her was no good. I offered to look at it. When she showed me a win98 system. Comcast told her she needed to upgrade to winxp or better system or they will not connect her to the internet. I asked her if she had a router and she did. I told her all they are doing is connecting her router to the net. The OS should not be an issue. Then I informed her she should look into Linux as the better solution to her problem because of the security problems and such with winjunk. She would also not need to spend the money on a new PC.
I also had tech support give me grief about Linux and support stuff. I told the guy. “Internet goes thru the router then into computer”. “Your not supporting anything but giving me the net”. If you don’t stop messing with my connection and speeds I will find another way to get online. I have almost no probs now. How did everbody like the fcc busting Comcast, not much happened to them but atleast People are aware of the junk these big Co. pull
Thank you for letting me rant
Contact anyone there that supplies broadband. Connect with a sales manager (not one of the people that sit by the phone hoping to get new subscribers). Tell them exactly what has happened. Also tell them how you are a non-profit that is having success with at-risk individuals. If you’ve been getting some press lately on the net or in print, you might mention that, too. Then finally tell them that you’re taking bids from companies to supply the service because you are unhappy with the treatment from Comcast.
Next call Comcast. Connect with a sales manager. Tell them what has happened and how disappointed you are. Also explain that you are soliciting bids from their competitors.
I’m pretty sure that someone will cut you a nice contract and guarantee good service.
Comcast has been screwing up for some time now. If they want to keep their customers and not have more bad press, they’ll help you out. If they make a bunch of excuses, then they don’t care, they don’t want to improve, and you don’t want to continue to work with them.
Let me know what happens.
I am a Tech Support employee for a major internet provider who also happens to be an experienced GNU/Linux user and promoter of open source on the desktop. I also have some familiarity with Comcast. I stress though that I am responding to this article on my own behalf and not any Internet Provider in particular.
As with most ISP’s (Internet Service Providers) it sometimes depends on the personal knowledge of the tech support agent you have reached. When it comes to support for an operating system not officially supported, such as GNU/Linux, it really depends on whether or not the agent is knowledgeable. And it doesn’t have to be scripted either. (At that, most agents who have been doing this for a little while dispense with scripts. They can be cumbersome.)
As things are, I am not aware of anything that specifically prohibits me from supporting GNU/Linux. It is usually left up to the agent. If I had been working for Comcast at the moment Mrs. Gorman called this article would have been very different indeed, ‘Comcast Enthusiastically Supports Linux!’
As for the behavior of the particular agent in this article I find this is unusual. Mrs. Gorman was obviously willing to do the legwork. So normally that shouldn’t have been a problem. In addition, Comcast (as well as other ISP’s) appear to be moving away from restricting support agents to a particular amount of time per call. Nowadays, they seem to be focusing more on staying with the customer until the issue is resolved. In light of this I find this more usual. A bad apple perhaps?
Taken as a whole, how does one go about connecting a computer to an internet provider? Depending on your provider, you need a computer with either DHCP or PPPOE support. You also need an ethernet chord. No, you don’t normally need their software to connect. No, there are no firewalls per say, only some spam blocking. Connecting GNU/Linux to an internet provider shouldn’t be a problem. If there is, see your distribution’s documentation. It’s usually something simple like not having a check mark beside ‘enable network connection’ or having DHCP or PPPOE enabled. The command, ifup eth0 with root privileges can sometimes help here if your ethernet card is disabled.
Point to note: Has anyone noticed that Comcast actually has some GNU/Linux support on their website? Yup, it’s true. Goto comcast.net , click on help (upper right) and then do a search for Linspire. Yes, I know it’s Linspire with all its Microsoft connections but there it is nevertheless. A GUI walk through for setting up the internet connection and K mail for Linspire! A GNU/Linux distribution. I know it’s not much but it’s certainly a start.
To sum this up, I have an idea. Why not petition your ISP to setup an additional que for GNU/Linux users? Have your ISP petition their agents, find out who is knowledgeable with GNU/Linux, and then ask them if they would like to volunteer for an additional que supporting GNU/Linux. Any additional calls pertaining to GNU/Linux support would then get routed to these people and not just any tech support agent. If it’s important to you then it’s worth a shot. Remember, there’s strength in numbers. The more that do this, the more chance there is of convincing your ISP of the importance of this and making this a reality.
I, for one, would salivate at the chance to support GNU/Linux more often. And believe it or not I’m not the only one. Surprisingly, there is a growing number of tech support agents that I believe have the knowledge to provide competent support for a wide variety of distributions. No doubt, if something like this had been setup when Mrs. Gorman had called Comcast she would have been a lot happier!
PS. Sorry about the spelling of the title. It should read, ‘ A Tech Support Agent ‘ instead. I was a little quick with the Post Comment button.
I am a little confused here….you stated that your XP systems more than half the time were unusable? It sounds to me like you are an inexperienced system admin in that regard and switched to something you were more comfortable with – Ubuntu. While there is nothing wrong with your OS of choice, I think you are mistaken in your assertion that XP was the problem. I am no MS fanboy, but a properly administered XP LAN can be just as stable as a Linux based LAN – you just have to know how to secure your machines.
@Stephen
I do agree, a network of properly configured XP computers can work just fine. The problem is the amount of work necessary to keep that XP network running smoothly.
New Generation does not have a full-time IT administrator. As I said, I help out when I am in town, meaning that the network must stay working smoothly for months on end, in between my visits to my home town of Lake City, Fl.
Besides, it is very easy to walk someone through setting up a machine running Linux via telephone. Have you ever tried to get on the phone and explain to someone how to use the XP group policy editor? That is something I would not wish upon my worst enemy.
I think this is not really a case of discrimination, but rather a lack of training. Comcast needs to educate its customer support people about what Linux is, and the fact that they provide internet access, which is completely independent of the computer connecting to it.
Wow Douglass, imagine that…
Do NOT choose ATT. I work for a *large* nonprofit with many national and international offices.
Support has been *miserable* from ATT. Connections go down frequently, take *days* in many cases to rectify. Pass the buck… local loop isn’t out problem, etc…
The support issues with ATT are for *managed* T1 service, which is *poorly* supported and managed.
That’s Comcast for you, Craptastic should be their slogan. They have always over charged for a internet service that is less than satisfactory. Customer support? Don’t make me laugh, they are almost impossible to get a hold of, I have always recieved the recording “We are experiencing a higher then normal call volume please call back at a later time.” it’s enough to drive a sysadmin batty. In closing cancel Comcast, do some homework and get different service where ever you may be. I did and life has become so much easier.
@Charley S
Thanks for the heads up on AT&T. However, I’ve heard mixed reports about them. Anyways, their T1 service is way out of our price range, esp. since we are a long way away from their local T1 center.
I’m beginning to wonder, is there _any_ Internet service in America that does not suck? If you know of one, please let me know!
Call us we can help.
I am a Comcast subscriber and a longtime Ubuntu user. My only Comcast problem so far is their failure to support the Evolution mail client. My real problem is with Key Bank. I can no longer bank online because their software fails to recognize my configuration and, therefore, will not let me register my computer. Each time I try, I am asked to register again. This means a new computer name each time…..etc. I am, at present, locked out by their security.
Well, to be fair AT&T (Bellsouth in Miami Dade County) also does this. I think the problem is mainly because the people at the first level of technical support are just reading from a script. They do not have one for Linux. They always ask me what operating system I am running. I just do not tell them. If they insist, I tell them that it does not matter, and they should know that. At that point I ask them to transfer me to 2nd level technical support. Those are actual techies who are more likely to know what they are doing.
Tweeted this to @comcastcares.. See what he has to say about it
Well that is just plain Cr@pTasT1c! You too can get incompetent support, low quality over subscribed saturated internet and crappy VoIP phone service for only $99.99. Join the millions of dissatisfied customers….
All kidding aside, C()mC@st is not a good for the future of the Internet. They threaten network neutrality under the guise of “network management practice”. What they are really trying to do is kill off competitors and competiting new technologies. Elect as I have to NOT be CrapTastic!
http://www.savetheinternet.org
Well I could understand if they give a cold shoulder to an OS you created, or that’s used by 3 people or something, but COME ON, LINUX! I USE LINUX!!! Way too many people use it to ignore it.
AT&T is no better. Just the other day I had an issue with setting up a new DSL account for a friend of mine. Check out http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=896181 for a synopsis. They basically said that it is not possible to activate newly ordered DSL services with Linux. It seems that a lot of these companies are in for a shock when more and more people adopt Linux. I for one, have been helping to migrate dozens of dissatisfied Vista users. They are always very surprised at how much faster their computers are when running Linux.
that’s interesting, i have comcast out here in CA, and i got tech support for my slax.
If you think your Comcastic experience was bad then read my Blog at Tuxwerx (http://www.tuxwerx.com/Blogs/) and see the unholy h**l I’m going through with Comcast!
Comcast is ripping broadband customers off and I can prove it.
They tried to blame Ubuntu Linux in my puters too and my test blew that claim out of the water.
Grab the screenshots on my Blog for your own lawsuits against Comcast!!
He even went as far to say that the company supports Windows, Mac OSX, and even Unix (note that both Linux and OSX are a form of Unix), but not Linux. That’s really funny… and even though I’m a Windows user I think that is ridiculous and I don’t see any grounds for that which would make sense for Linux users…
This situation of Internet Service Providers not providing support for anything except Windows and Mac is not uncommon here in Vancouver Canada either. Both TELUS and Shaw, the two largest competing ISPs don’t train their staff at all for dealing with clients running linux, DESPITE many of their customer support agents themselves running some form of linux. A number of times I have called in for my home Internet connection and had to inform the agent that I use Ubuntu, and he kindly informed me that though despite using Ubuntu himself in his home he was unable to help me further.
Personally I think it’s an embarrassment to the industry that they would continue to deny that linux and it’s many distros don’t exist.